Increase Your Case Acceptance With Dr. Christopher Phelps

Chris:

Whether you realize it or not, when a patient walks in the door, your practice when you’re speaking to them on the telephone for the first time, whatever the situation is, right? They’re coming into that situation with a mindset already pre established. And if you don’t do anything to change that mindset, the odds are pretty good, that, their mindset wherever it’s at is not here focused on their health need.

Sliman:

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen to the Care Frontiers podcast, the show where we bring healthcare professionals to share with us their own experience running a successful medical business. Joining me today, the outstanding dentist entrepreneur and amazon best selling author, Dr. Christopher Phelps, Doc, welcome to our show.

Chris:

Thank you, I appreciate you having me on.

Sliman:

You are most welcome. Dr. Phelps, tell us a little bit about you and your background on how it all led to you what you’re doing right now helping medical dental professionals?

Chris:

Yeah, you know, it’s kind of interesting, you know, I made the decision that I wanted to be a dentist when I was in the seventh grade. So in middle school, and just, you know, had this idea when I went to a future dentist of America club meeting that a friend of mine invited me to, and I’m the one that fell in love with dentistry and the whole medical profession, and was committed to that at an early age. And so you know, my life’s passion has always been to treat patients and be the best dentist I can be. But my nature, the way I’m instinctively built, I’ve discovered is a little different. Come to find out that, you know, before I’ve realized who I was, I just thought I was a really good dentist. Now I understand that I’m an entrepreneur, who happens to be a really good dentist. And you know, somebody who’s built to start up multiple companies and really good at problem solving and turning things around. So, you know, it all kind of started in dental school, when I had my kind of first entrepreneurial endeavor,

Chris:

ended up selling notes to my classmates and turned it into a little business because I got relocated. Yeah, I got really good at simplifying that material for the test, because that’s how what I needed to do to study right, I had to, you know, simplify, it was just too much information. And I had to get to the meat of the of the material. And I did well on the test accordingly. And when I started, you know, I got every test and denials go down to about five pages of front and back notebook paper. And when I realized that there was value in that, and my colleagues realize their value in that I had more than I care to admit on the show on the payroll for every test. And so it was kind of a first sneak peek of that, you know, that there’s something in me to build something and create something out of nothing. And and graduated dental school coming up on 18 years ago and came to Charlotte, North Carolina, join my wife’s dentist who had been her dentist since she was 14.

Chris:

And he had a little old house a fee for service office. So not really based on dental insurance. It was a cash based business, which was unique at that time, nobody around us was like that. And we kind of grew his little office and 10 times the revenue of his business over the first seven years and had a I’ve had a great career building and buying and selling and dental offices ever since.

Sliman:

So yeah, I can see that you had the entrepreneurial spirit way back when. So doc, I know that one when I see and they watch your episodes in your podcasts or read articles; you are big on patient communications and getting yes from the patient. And you have a record of increasing and doubling the case acceptance of your practices on other dental professionals. Can you tell us a little bit why some dentists fail to get a “yes” from the patient?

Chris:

Yeah, definitely. And you know, it all kind of started in my journey in understanding communication and the science behind why people do what they do what they call behavioral science. started when I had four dental offices, and I sold my two of my best offices, the ones that were the most profitable, and I took over the two worst ones, the ones that were struggling, thinking that if I could get back to doing focusing on maximizing their capacity, that I could do more with those two offices that I did when I had four in total, which I was able to prove, but before I could grow them, I had to figure out why was I having all these problems with my patient behavior. You know, why were patients not returning for treatment when they said they would or why aren’t they paying their bill when they said they would? Why weren’t they referring when they said they would Why couldn’t my team implement something for me

Chris:

Like they said they would or might associate doctors etc. So had all these behavioral problems I kept seeing across the board with patients and team members and associate doctors that work for me. But I couldn’t put my finger on why. And it wasn’t until I heard the authority in this field, Dr. Robert Cialdini speak about his six principles of influence and persuasion. The my eyes really got open to the why behind these behavioral issues. And so I got to study with Dr. Cialdini and analysis Cellini certified trainer and his method of influence. So, you know, I kind of used his teachings in the the behavioral science research in my practices to tackle these issues, and grow them again. So when it comes to communication, and why to medical professionals and dentist in general have trouble is because they don’t really understand why people are saying no to them. You know, if we get a no, for some reason, we think it’s about the price, because that’s usually the excuse somebody might give us your too expensive? Well, what we find out from the Behavioral Sciences, it’s not about what you’re asking for, that sets the stage for Yes. It’s actually about what you said or did before you even got to that point, that set the stage for Yes. And it really doesn’t have to be about the price the majority of the time. So if people really understood the top five reasons why they say no to you, and you build your strategies around that everything changes. So an example one of the reasons people say no to us is that you don’t have a relationship with them. You know, if I don’t know you, if I don’t like you, then we’re probably not going to do business together. I’m not more I’m not going to say yes to you.

Chris:

When people are uncertain when they have questions or doubts in their mind. They don’t say yes, if there’s no motivation, there’s no urgency, you know, that says, I got time syndrome. Yeah, I think I’ll do it at some point. But I’ll do it right now. You know, when they there’s no urgency present, you don’t typically get a yes. If they’re not in the right mindset, you know, we can talk about mindsets, and this idea of pre suasion,

Chris:

then the door to yes has already been shut before you even started your conversation. And ultimately, when you do get to presenting them with options and prices, if you’re letting them control that comparison to the things they’re spinning in their life, you’re going to lose more often than not. So why do doctors have a hard time getting? Yes? Because their focus is on the excuse they get when they get a no? Which is your too expensive, instead of changing their focus and strategies on those reasons that we just talked about. Focus on those areas, and you’ll figure out a way to get more yeses.

Sliman:

Yeah, that’s really interesting. So how do you combat these, let’s say invisible layers of issues like something like you just said that you they don’t know you, or uncertainty. So how do you combat that? And any tips to trying to go on plowing through these kind of problems in communication?

Chris:

Yeah, you know, a simple thing. And this is what I teach in my two day persuasion workshops is how to tackle these things, right. And you can use Cialdini six principles of influence and persuasion to tackle all of these reasons why people say no to you. So for the first one relationship to how do we build relationships with people so if they do know us, and like us, they’re more likely to say yes, well, we can use this principle of reciprocity. You know, giving them gifts that they value, opens relationships, right? It opens the door and builds bridges to people could be tangible gifts, we give them like a gift card, let’s say or what have you. But there’s a lot of intangible gifts we give people favours information, our attention and time that people really do have find value in it perceived as a gift to build those relationships. We can leverage the liking principle, okay, and find commonality similarities. People like to do business with people like them, who have similarities and common interest and shared topics or hobbies, if you will, something like Oh, you’ve got two kids I got to get right just a simple connection like that can automatically open up more doors and instills more liking. And if they like you, then they’re now more likely to do business with you. So the short answer is we can use many of these principles to tackle all of those reasons why people say no to us.

Sliman:

So while we’re on the subject of persuasion, Doc, you often talk about a concept called pre-suasion. And that is, I believe, about setting the tone or the environment. Before you even ask the your your request. Can you walk us through how pre-suasion works? And how it complements the persuasion tactics?

Chris:

Definitely. So when you hear you know, persuasion and pre-suasion, they’re different things. persuasion is all about influencing the person and setting the stage to for them to say yes to whatever you’re asking them, when they’re in front of you, right in that moment of opportunity, but pre-suasion is something that can set the stage for Yes, before that person ever gets in front of you. Okay. We call it priming the pump for it. Yes.

Chris:

In essence, what it’s all about is getting the patient in a mindset that is going to be favorable to what you’re going to be talking about, or what you’re going to be asking for, if you will. Because mindsets are key right now, mindsets are all about who you are in the moment you’re about to make a decision. But who you are in that moment, it is all about where you are in that moment, leading up to your decision, meaning in your environment, like what are the sights, the sounds, the smells that you were exposed to? Because that can affect your mindset, before you make a decision. It’s about your cognitive thoughts, right? What were your thoughts dwelling on leading up to a decision because whatever you’re thinking about positive, negative, etc, could create a mindset in that moment, before you decide.

Chris:

And it’s all about where you are emotionally in that moment, before you make a decision. All those things affect your mindset. Getting people in the right mindset, okay, sets the stage for more people to say yes to your request, especially when that mindset falls in line. So what I tell my doctors is this is that whether you realize it or not, when a patient walks in the door, your practice, when you’re speaking to them on the telephone, for the first time, whatever the situation is, right? They’re coming into that situation with a mindset already pre established. And if you don’t do anything to change that mindset, the odds are pretty good. their mindset, wherever it’s at, is not here focused on their health need, and our case, their oral health need, right? So an example I give is, let’s say you got a new client or new patient coming into your practice. And they’re in their parking lot, because they’re there early to fill out paperwork. And they have a knock down, drag out fight with their spouse on the telephone, like tears. Divorce could be coming. Who knows, right? But it’s not a pretty thing. Okay. And now this fights over, she cleans herself up, she comes into your practice, she has a good experience. It’s not it’s not great. It’s not bad, but she’s good experience. And you come in talking about all of their health needs, their dental health needs, in essence, where do you think their mind is at right now? Is it even here?

Chris:

Yeah, it’s still in the car, and it still will not fight. So that’s what I mean, people are coming into situations that you are interacting with them with a mindset pre established, and if you’re not careful, is most of the time that mindset is contrary to what you want to be discussing. And if if their mindset isn’t here, then the door to yes has already been shut, before you ever start the conversation. So pre suasion, it’s all about regardless of what mindset they are in, it’s how do we change that? How do we create a new mindset that free focuses them re centers then back on the topic at hand, a topic that’s going to be more fitting for our requests, we’re going to persuade them with at chair or in our office.

Sliman:

So from what I gathered, from hearing you talk about this, it seems that there are multiple, let’s say barriers to your request to being approved or being your case being accepted. So what would you say is the toughest problem when it comes to patient communication? And how do you deal with that?

Chris:

Yeah, you know, I think for doctors and dentists, in particular, for our dental colleagues, one of the big things they struggle with is communication. And I think that leads to more nose than anything else, is they create too much uncertainty in the patient’s mind. Okay. And as I mentioned before, when the patient is uncertain if they’re unsure, they don’t say yes. So they do that in one of two ways. Okay. Sometimes they don’t seem confident in their recommendations. Right? And if you’re not confident, you’re the authority in that person’s mind the expert, and you’re not confident, then that patient is not going to be confident. And sure, it’s kind of like, Well, Mr. Jones, you could do this, or you could do that. Or you could do this, I don’t know, what do you want to do?

Chris:

Right, that doesn’t sound very confident, right? And the patient’s mind, they’re hearing that going, well, geez, Doc, you’re supposed to be the expert. You don’t even know what I should do. How am I supposed to know? Alright, I guess I’ll do nothing. Because, right. So sometimes we’re the source of the uncertainty. And we don’t seem confident in our recommendations, whatever those are. But more often than not, I would say the real reason why we bungle this opportunity here is that we lead patients with too many options on the table. Okay, and we think that we can educate them and use the logic or the merits of our case on their needs. And that should be enough to educate them to make a decision. But the truth is, they’re not dental experts. Okay. And, you know, while they do need a choice, they knew at least one option

Chris:

to help get more commitments and get more yeses. There’s this Paradox of Choice that says the more choices we give people, the less likely they are to pick anything, because they lose the ability to tell the difference between your options or the choices at hand. And if they can’t tell the difference, they don’t say yes. So an example would be dentist comes in and a patient has a single missing tooth, and we ethically present their options and their options are to do a dental implant, abutment and crown

Chris:

They can do a three and a bridge, or they can do a removable partial denture. Okay, and they’ll probably give you some details about each one. And then they’ll leave it up to the financial team to come in and go over financial options for each of those three treatment plans, right implant bridge partial, and the financial team will probably have three financial options available for each of those three treatment plans. So now the patient has nine things to try to pick from nine financial options between those three treatment options. Do you see how it’s confusing and to see how it’s going to be hard for people to make a decision? Right? So what I try to teach is while you can give people as many options, as you ethically feel like you need to, we cannot leave the doctors cannot leave too many options on the table, we got to funnel them down to one plan. One thing, one option, it could be the, you know, the whole mouth of treatment. If that’s your plan, it could be half the mouth, it could be a quadrant could be a single tooth. I don’t care what the plan is, but you got to get the patient committed to one plan. Okay, once you have the one plan, then you can go and it’s a whole lot easier conversation for the financial team to move forward from there.

Sliman:

Yeah, it’s interesting paradox because we think we tend to think that more equals good or better, but in this case, it leads to decision fatigue for the patient. And it steals the clarity from the patient to choose from their options. And I think narrowing down the options will make less room for for decision fatigue in general. So, Doctor, I’m really curious these kind of tactics and communication strategy, are they applicable in other touchpoints with patients other than face to face conversation? things like marketing ads phone call, or even hygienists, and staff conversation? Can these tactics be implemented anywhere else throughout the patient journey?

Chris:

Definitely, in fact, they are relevant at every touchpoint in the patient journey. Every touchpoint every interaction, whether direct with you, or indirect through an email or an advertisement piece that they got or brochure they received about a certain topic or procedure, your business card, your reservation card appointment cards, all of these things have an opportunity to influence whether you realize it or not. Just think of it from a mindset standpoint, right? I may want a patient in a certain mindset when they’ve looked at my advertising piece. Versus I may want them to have a different mindset when they go to my website,

Chris:

maybe one of trust, so to speak. So I’ve got all kinds of evidence from patient testimonials and Google reviews on my website to show that they can trust us and show them look how many other people using social proof as well look how many other people trust us. So maybe you’re going to be safe trusting us to I may want a different mindset and such to influence when we talk to them on the telephone. Or when they walk through the door of our reception area. Maybe I want a mindset there have family, right and or of home. So it doesn’t look like a dental office reception area, it looks like they’re living her. So they’re automatically more comfortable and more at ease, you know, when they’re at the chair for the first time before they meet my team and myself for the first time. So there’s all kinds of opportunities and touch points for us to interact and have influence and all these principles for pre suasion and persuasion can apply there.

Sliman:

While we’re on the subject on touch points on marketing and ads, go to transition a little bit towards the marketing side of things. What is your favorite marketing strategies to implement, to attract new patients to the door?

Chris:

Yeah, you know, I kind of looked at there’s a couple different broad areas in marketing. You could you could we could talk about of course, the three I tend to focus on the most are external marketing, internal marketing, and my favorite is grassroots marketing. Right. And when you think of the word grassroots, it’s like, I think of grassroots politicians, you know, getting back out there in front of the people, if you will, and boots on the ground kind of thing. And so I love grassroots marketing. So in essence, you know, external marketing is all about you promote your message to the masses to a large group of people. Okay, almost like when you’re out on a fishing boat and you’re thrown out this huge net trying to and hoping to reel in some fish, right? That’s what external marketing does you promote your message to a larger audience and hope that some filter back in and come into your business? Why would grassroots marketing it’s a little different, okay. You spread your message to a small group of people and hopefully if you influence them properly, they go out and spread your message to the masses on your behalf. So I tell the message to one person and they go till two who go till two more utilities look a ripple effect, like a ripple effect exactly like the stone hitting the water. Okay. And so what I found is that with grass roots, if you understand the your target market, and how to influence them, it can be

Chris:

One of the most powerful mediums of marketing that you can do both on a inexpensive cost point base and doesn’t necessarily have to take up a lot of your time as well. So kind of my favorite is, you know, my target market or active Independent Living retirees, okay? People who have disposable income, who can afford dental care and cosmetic elected dental care, whatever the care they need is, but they need some justification to to write the check, okay? Because they their mindset is they’re on a fixed budget, their money is gonna last. But there’s ways to counter that, as we talked about. So one of the best things I found is I go and do educational seminars on site at these retirement communities, they where they live, where they congregate. And my hook is to try to get them to one of my educational events is I offer them wine and cheese. You know, I have a ton of wine from Napa Valley that I’ve ordered throughout the years. And, you know, I like to make my hobbies a business expense. So I found a way that I can order my wine and now use them for these events and attract people like me, people who enjoy wine, again, invoking the liking principle.

Chris:

And I’ll get 30 to 40 people in a seminar once a month. And, you know, talk to them about, you know, a little bit of promotional stuff up front, here’s who we are as why we’re different. Most of them don’t have dental insurance. So I talked about my dental membership plan that I’ve created for my office, something that gives them the sense that they have insurance. But we’re not calling an insurance, it’s like a Costco membership style plan to get the preventative care and stuff that they need. And then I go into it’s all 80% of its educational, you know, teaching about the top five dental issues affecting the aging population. Now sugar and acids are in everything and how what they can do to protect their teeth, and then usually focusing on some niche topic like dental implants, or sleep apnea or something to that effect. And what I found is that those were doing those one time a month were powerful ways for me to attract 30 to 40, potential new patients a month, and then those patients would then go back to the people next communities and start spreading the word. So initially, I’d go do these talks, you know, I would hope somebody would either buy my membership plan or make an appointment that night, but nobody you did for the first several events. But by the time the sixth event rolled around, and word had spread from the early adaptors who did give us a try, maybe they didn’t buy on that night, but they did, you know, think about it and come in over the next few weeks. Suddenly, six months later, half the people that that came to my seminar, were buying my membership plan on site, and the other half, were making an appointment on site, right?

Chris:

So it was a powerful momentum shift. You turn these things into the social events of their communities, right, something fun for them all to go out and do. So when you understand how to influence grassroots can be a pretty powerful way to get more people into your business.

Sliman:

And also inexpensive comparatively speaking, when it comes to other channels of marketing. And it’s so effective as well. So, Dr. Phelps, while we’re on the subject of marketing, and I’m really a big fan of your company called tracker ROI. Can you explain to the listeners what your this company is doing to help dental professionals achieve more effective results?

Chris:

Yeah, definitely. And here’s the entrepreneur in me. So I have two companies we have called tracker ROI, return on investment, and golden goose scheduling. So it all started with culture ROI. So when I sold my two best offices, and I took over my two worst offices, I found myself spending $36,000 a month in digital marketing. And I was only getting 60 new patients from my efforts 30 new patients a month at one of my offices and 30 new patients at one of my other offices. So 16 new patients for 36,000 a month, you probably don’t want to be a math major, you realize that’s not a good ROI.

Chris:

That’s not a good check to have to write every month. Okay. So I knew that there was a problem, but I couldn’t tell what the problem was. And I look at marketing as two sides of a coin. Right? Is it the the marketing, I was spending my money on not generating enough quantity? Okay, and quality of new patient opportunities? Or was it the other side of the coin? was the last opportunity side? Was my team not able to answer the telephone, make an appointment and influence people to show up for that appointment? Or was it both? Right? Did I have a problem in both areas? And my challenge was I didn’t know. Okay. And that’s Unfortunately, most of us when we spend our money in marketing, we don’t know what we don’t know, because we’re not tracking it properly. So I knew the answer was in tracking and on the telephone, but I tried different tracking companies out there and nobody really had what I was looking for.

Chris:

They were all kind of scratching at the truth, but nobody gave me the whole truth. So I decided to build my own products. And that’s what call tracker is it’s a call tracking company. And I have live people that listen to every phone call and pull out what I consider the the top five things you need to track to really understand if your marketing is working.

Chris:

We’re not working, and why? Okay, because once you know, the good, the bad and the ugly and the why of it, then you can actually do something about it. Okay? And my challenge was it wasn’t the advertisements they were bringing in tons of leads. But it was my team, we didn’t answer 224 new patient calls a month. And when my team did answer the telephone, we only made an appointment about 30 24% of the time. So you know, two out of 10, if you will, when people were calling for an appointment. So talk about a gut punch, if you will. So I said about of digging into the details of that, why can’t we answer more phone calls? Why are we having a hard time scheduling these appointments? What are the barriers that patients are putting up with scheduling? Or what what I found, what were the barriers, my team, were putting up that were keeping people from scheduling. But either way, I if I didn’t solve those problems, I was going to keep wasting that money. But the benefit was with good tracking. And now I knew the data and I knew what I could start doing to change the outcome. It improved, to where I dropped my marketing 74%. Okay, so significantly, the seven, that’s a high number 74%. And my new patient count went from 60 a month to over 300 a month. Well, they talk about it. And we’re not even counting that changing the ROI. I mean, it was huge, the return.

Chris:

But without the data, I never could have done that. Right? Because I didn’t know what I didn’t know. And so that’s kind of what golden goose scheduling does. I realized that every medical and dental office out there has this problem, because I track them all. I track your office’s I see the data across the US, Canada, the UK, Australia, we have called tracker available in all those countries. And it’s the same problem. We’re, we’re all in the same boat, whether you realize it or not. So that’s kind of what I built golden goose scheduling. And right now it’s only in the US and Canada. But you know, to help teams answer and schedule more new patient phone calls, to tap into that last opportunity that’s killing all of us, you know. And now because of COVID when people are down team members and everything else, it’s never been more important to have somebody help helping you cover those phones.

Sliman:

Yeah, exactly. Doc, one last question. And to close this off, any takeaways you have to share with listeners?

Chris:

Yeah, you know, if I gave you some simple advice, you know, one little nugget I always give people is, be careful. Take the time to build the relationship. All right, that’s number one. Find one simple connection, one commonality with that person, before you talk about the business of why they’re there. Right, so dentist before you start ripping their lips open and checking out their teeth. Find something in common with them first, right and bring that to the surface. Oh, you got two kids. I got two kids. Tell me about your kids. You like dogs, I like dogs, whatever it is, even if it’s simple. Your name’s Chris, my name is Chris Chris’s. If that’s all you got, go with it. Okay.

Chris:

But start by trying to make that connection to build the relationship. Be wary of giving them too many options. Okay. If you do give them options, that’s fine. But what I want you to do is I want you to use a this or that question format frame, your question is that this or that scenario, and try to funnel them down to one thing. So going back to the the bridge, the partial and the implant example, I may take once I’ve gone through the pros and cons of each and I’ll say, well, let’s figure out which one’s right for you. Let’s look at this partial versus a bridge. Okay, well, the partial, this thing comes in and out of your mouth, versus the bridge stays in place. It doesn’t leave your mouth, and it feels like your natural teeth. So what would you prefer? Do you want something that comes in and out? Or do you want something that stays in place and feels like your natural teeth?

Chris:

And then let them choose? Right? So present your options back to them as a this or that scenario? Right? Until and let them pick. And once they pick, listen, they may say well, no, I don’t want to do I don’t know anything comes out of my mouth. I’ll just do the bridge, or I want something that stays in place. Okay, great. Now look at this look at this bridge versus an implant and present that as a this or that option. But keep doing that until you funnel them down to something one plan. Okay, you can do that automatically, you’re going to have better case exceptions off the bat. Okay? And figure out a way to increase urgency and motivation. So one of the ways I do that is I use the principle of scarcity. So I start my conversation with the consequences of what’s going to happen if they don’t move forward treatment. That’s always option one. Option one is you do nothing. But here’s what’s going to happen when you do that. And I lay out for them what it’s going to cost them in time, money, pain, additional treatment, if they decided to get it fixed down the road, okay, and I put a price tag to it, I anchor them to a cost of that like a monetary cost. So if you do nothing with this missing tooth, your teeth are going to shift you’re gonna lose bone, the sinuses are going to get bigger. And if I had to fix it down the road, we’re looking at orthodontic treatment to move the teeth out of the way. So I have space to put a new tooth. I have to do a sinus lift and bone grafting. Then do an implant abutment and crown. We’re talking about two years of treatment and probably 10,000 hours

Chris:

By doing nothing, but the good news is we’re not there yet. If we get to it today, we can look at this option, which is a dental implant, or this bridge, or this partial, right? So I like to anchor them to the the ethical consequences of doing nothing before we do anything. And scarcity is a powerful motivator for action today, especially when it’s true, and it’s ethical, okay? So you can do that to build the relationships with them, right? Find that connection, use the this or that format to funnel them down to one plan based on the different options that you’ve given them. That decreases their uncertainty and gets them more committed. And if you can anchor them to the ethical consequences of doing nothing, then going into the benefits of your other treatment options that are available today. That’s a powerful tool you can use to motivate action.

Sliman:

What a powerful end off to this episode. Thank you so much, Dr. Phelps, for taking the time. It’s been a pleasure talking to you.

Chris:

My pleasure. Thanks for having me on.

Sliman:

If you want more from Dr. Phelps, make sure to check out his website for more resources at www.drphelpshelps.com. And if you’d like to reach him out personally, all of his contact information are in the show notes. Dr. Phelps, do you have anything you want to add? Or do you have any upcoming workshops or anything you want the listeners to know about?

Chris:

Yeah, yeah, we’re doing the persuasion workshops, live stream now because of the code stuff. So if you want some information on our next upcoming workshop, we got two more scheduled this year. shoot me an email at Chris@drphelpshelps.com. so we’ve got some influence courses coming up. If you’re interested in Golden Goose scheduling. goldengoosescheduling.com check that out. We’re working with medical and dental offices, as I said to help them answer is schedule your patient calls. But yeah, reach out. I’m happy to help.

Sliman:

Again, all of all of the links are in the show notes.

Sliman:

Alright, ladies and gentlemen, that was Dr. Christopher Phelps.